Basic Income

[dewline]

Assuming Canada's applecart doesn't get overturned by the tantrums of either Trump or Xi...I would feel safer if I knew with certainty that this was a floor - adjusted for inflation continually - that I would never be allowed to fall through.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/basic-income-economic-impact-canada_ca_5fd12057c5b68ce17184ca61

Comments

[agoodwinsmith]

I am not against Basic Income.

I am against people thinking it will work.

For starters, politicians just CANNOT keep their hands off money earmarked for others. They've helped themselves to bits of CPP, bits of ICBC (BC car insurance ediface) profits, and other bits over the years. It's like expecting toddlers to stay out of mud.

Second, that isn't enough money to find a decent apartment in the lower mainland (forget Vancouver). As soon as that's the basic income, junko rentals' prices will jump.

Third, it won't be protected from inflation. Something that cost $100.00 ten years ago, now costs $17.00 more. It just doesn't take long for lots of money to become pitiful.

Here is the calculator I used to get that number:
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/

Four, there will be stupid rules. For instance, back in the day, students were penalized on student loans for having a car, owning a home, having RRSPS, and similar.

Fifth, many useful services with be shut down because "it's all covered by UBI" - ha ha ha. This will be another mud puddle opportunity for the ethically challenged.

And so on. Given human nature, it will leave more people hanging in the wind than it will help.

[dewline]

You're worried about this, too, right? *points to the links*

https://eand.co/can-democracy-survive-the-age-of-the-idiot-ff6450682c0a

https://eand.co/why-freedom-became-free-dumb-in-america-4947e39663f2

[agoodwinsmith]

I couldn't finish them because they seemed very self-congratulatory. We all have blind spots and missing bits of information. Designating other people's choices, no matter how wrong[1], as "stupid" or "dumb" is a great steam reliever, but won't help.

Biden isn't a strong choice. Until the Democrats stop trying to be cuddly sane Republican (now that the "real" Republicans are as sane as a sack full of rabid raccoons[2]), they will not have the full-hearted support of the people who need change.

[1] - I know, but while I don't know whether they are stupid or actively evil, I *do* know they are wrong.
[2] - have you *heard* male raccooons fight - O.M.G.

[sabotabby]

I don't think human nature, but certainly the nature of humans who get into power.

I like the idea of UBI. But I like the idea of Universal Basic Services more, and I think it's better able to protect people from falling through the floor.

[agoodwinsmith]

I like this idea of UBS, and each service needs to be set up as a nonprofit charitable organization, with capital invested like well-controlled pension plans. Politicians should not be able to make decisions about it, keep or give money to it, serve on its board of directors, etc etc. Every infraction should draw monetary penalties from the Political Party (not gov't) whose member was a greedy shit.

[frandroid]

Yeah, the impact on the rental/housing market is what's giving me pause with UBI. What if this income just gets swallowed by landlords? If you give more money to the 50th to 75th percentile income of people, then provinces without full/effective rent control (which is most of them, Québec being the notorious exception, Ontario being a mixed bag but could possibly be waved off in a pinch) would see the markets rise to meet this cash flood.

It's taken me a while to get there but I think it makes more sense to make UI, welfare and disability more generous without topping up the bottom of the middle-range households. Yes, more people have more money to afford the bottom 15% of housing, but it's not pushing up the upper levels?

We need to test this in an entire census metro area...

[armiphlage]

I used to think UBI was silly, but after thinking about it, I think it'd be good. It could be handled by the CRA, rather than creating separate bureaucracy.