Random Fannish Meditations on Marvel Comics' "Civil War"

[dewline]

Some fan-minded rambling on my part over the Civil War mess, some of which originally saw "print" over at Mike Norton's blog...



For myself, I find that I cannot complain at all about the way this is playing out to date. If Marvel Editorial holds to their promises, particularly the comment by Quesada that "public is public", and the consequences play out as they must...well, maybe it's time.

I've been thinking that something of this sort was going to have to happen sooner or later for quite some time. Some who post and/or lurk here may recall my arguments -- however brief and intermittent -- with assorted Legends APA members on the subject.

It does seem to have taken the 2001 Atrocities to set these wheels in motion. And for DC, I note, they're trying to steer in the opposite direction on secret IDs. Some of those have already apparently been retconned back in the wake of Infinite Crisis to certain earlier career status quo ante crisium points. (Waving "Hello" to Hal and Ollie in particular, here.) I don't think it's going to work out for them over the long haul, but it'll be interesting to watch them keep trying.

My feeling about DC's level of success at resisting the tide on secret IDs continuing as a primary plank of the genre's conventions...I blame David Brin, particularly his novel Earth, for pointing out the obvious trend: we're steering -- by design as much as accident -- towards a "no secrets tolerated" society around the world. Secrecy will be conflated with privacy -- and in some circles, already is -- and will be seen as a greater offence than many others currently agreed upon in the world's social contracts.

In any case, I look forward to a lot of interesting comics reading for at least the next couple of years.

Okay, that's my thinking in a nutshell, slightly expanded. Anyone else who gives a hoot, am I nuts?

Comments

[dannydonovan.livejournal.com]

Personally I have my problems with it. The "Secret Identity" is an integral part of a heroes life. They are in a constant balancing game of trying not to bring their work home with them.

For many, the secret identity is a safe house, because if you had to deal with mass murderers, sociopaths, and the other nutcases someone like Spider-man or Batman deal with, you would have a total mental breakdown at the barrage of savagery without end in sight.

The other identity acts as a reminder of why you do it, living life as a normal person, making normal connections, having friends, families, etc. Seeing life go on without the meglomaniacal drama the hits the heroes life. Can you imagine what kind of stress you'd be under if you knew someone like Carnage or The Joker could look you up in a phone book and find out where you live and who you love?

It's also a way for the reader to better identify with the hero, you can't always resonate with having to punch some walking bunch of murderous ooze, but you do know what it's like when the woman you love walks out of your life, or someone close to you passes away, or going to a birthday party for a co-worker, or spending christmas/insert chosen yuletime holiday here with your family.

Also for people who have had their secrets retconned, don't forget The Flash. The Spectre's (Hal Jordan) last gift to Wally was a chance to take back something that was the biggest mistake ever, having the world know his dual identity. So his twins were never murdered, his wife never butchered, none of the rogues would ever remember Wally West was the Flash, and neither would the world.

I think it's a bad move because it honestly LIMITS the types of stories you can do instead of gives you more options. To be honest, and I pointed this out on an essay I wrote on the subject which will go live on the Radio Free Comicks website next week... it, to me, seems like a case of lazy writing. Unless someone comes in and does some incredible connection on a socialogical political spectrum, a head turning piece of Satire, of Steve Gerber level, it will remain to me, a gimmick, which will fizzle out and leave people running for cover much like the Spider-Clone and Heroes Reborn debacles, which promised "bold new paths, everything you know is a lie" kind of stories, but ended up being caught with their pants down and readers abandoning the ship.

After the voyeristic splurge of "oooh why'd he do that?" ends in a month or two, we'll see how strong the legs are and how many people stick around to see how it ends.

Speaking of the Flash...

[dewline.livejournal.com]

...I still have my issues as a fan and an ethics student with that little stunt with Hal as the Spectre. To my mind, that was -- and remains -- aggravated assault and brainwashing on a planetary scale. No matter the motives behind it.

By rights, Hal and Wally should've had what they did exposed and ought to have stood trial for it.

Re: Speaking of the Flash...

[dannydonovan.livejournal.com]

Unfortionately, I don't believe ethical laws really apply. Because Hal was acting as an emmesary of God so to speak. And as such, is somewhat out of reach of any particular court.

I am still rather fuzzy on the actual element of it... Because as I recall Wally was just in a state of total fuckedupness when he made that plea to the heavens, just as anyone who's lost someone prays that it never happened. You don't really expect it to be granted, I don't think Wally really is at total fault, the Spectre was of course, but again, it's kind of like charging a hurricane with 2,000 counts of homicide.

There are certain forces that are just beyond humans ability to "punish" and in comics, sometimes those are actual tangible creatures such as The Spectre, and Galactus, as opposed to their real world natural disaster counterparts. But even things as seemingly random and savage have checks and balances.

The thing is, that Infinite Crisis sort of rendered this moot because for all intents and purposes, unless otherwise stated, the event never took place when the realities righted themselves.

[dewline.livejournal.com]

As to the "creative limitations"...I think we're speaking of "trademark maintenance limitations" here, perceived or real. And I think we're seeing the general public show a lowered tolerance of that sort of concern being invoked as well.

I can't see this as a gimmick. Rather, it's the Way Life's Going to Be.

[dannydonovan.livejournal.com]

I think that's like saying the "dead is dead" edict was the way life was goign to be, when then we saw the return of Psylocke almost 6 months after that ruling came down. And then it was excused by saying:

Psylocke's return was always a plot point, so it is exempt from the "Dead is dead" rule And then of course bringing about the Return of Bucky, and Uncle Ben.

Nothing in comics is the way it's going to be, it's all arbitrary and depending upon who's working there after the ball drops either in a good way or a bad way. Back in 1995, the way life was going to be was Peter Parker was a clone, and Ben Reilly will forever and always be the one true Spider-man taking away the whole married spider-man concept and starting again. That lasted about 2 years from the inception of the arc to the final "Maximum Clonage finale" and resulted in Ben being devolved into a pile of goo, and a "I lied about the test results" leaving Peter Parker, the one true Spider-man and none of that past two years resulting in anything.

I mean Ben isn't even really remembered. (by the cast, not readers) I'm not a screaming member of the "continuitiratti" but I think there are certain things that are "creative license" and then there are certain things that are "I can't be arsed to tell a good story so I'm just going to fling shit at a wall and hope to keep my paycheck"

At the end of the day it's a subjective matter, its good for those its good for, and heresy for those that take things a little to seriously. For me it's just poor storytelling, I'm no longer connecting with the characters in the way I used to. I am no longer exploring new concepts, I'm seeing a bunch of things be thrown out there in hopes it congeals into a story.

John Byrne is the king of the retcon. But very few of those origin retellings still remain cannon after a year. The Chapter One, The "Hidden Years" of the X-MEN --- etc.

current decisions show me that there's more of a seeking of headlines than readers. But who's right and wrong will ultimately be seen at the cash register six months down the line.

The comic book industry is a REALLY tough nut.

[miraclo.livejournal.com]

Terribly busy, draining work week kept me from looking in here until today.

Let's take this in steps.

I don't believe that the Registration Act necessarily means the end of the secret identity, since there's no intrinsic insistance that they make those IDs public. Stark chose to do it as he is in both guises a highly public figure, and as a show of good faith. Peter's decided to do it, in part, because this is him standing with Tony. I'm sure that to some degree he's going to feel the relief of not having to constantly split his life; he is, however, more or less trapped as an Avenger now for the sake of the safety of Aunt May and Mary Jane.

In the end, if the law stands, I expect that information will become a SHIELD database, and that it will be within that organization that pay and benefit issues will be handled. SHIELD will likely set up special accounts in the standard government system for those who don't disclose their identity to the world, and as far as the rest of the federal bureaucracy is concerned those people will simply have become eligible for Social Security disability pay-outs and benefits, etc., or something of the like. All of the important info will be kept out of the general, federal databases, and as they'll be a new variety of secret agent the public dissemination of their civilian identities will be a federal crime -- you know, unless someone in the Bush Administration doesn't like someone's politics and decides to leak it...

Considering the resources SHIELD has -- which were recently concentrated in the minds of readers as we saw them temporarily shut down the Vision in order to raid his hard drive and distract Spider-man so that their Psi division could read his mind. The elements have been there for years, and this is largely just a matter of using them.

While I can't agree with Danny that the secret identity is an integral part of a hero's life, I do agree that it has been a common part of the mythos, and it has been an integral part of most superheroes'/vigilantes' lives. Much of that can still be preserved in a post-Registration Act world, however, and it'll be up to the talents of individual writers (and - hopefully for a change in the Quesada Marvel universe - responsible editors) to show the ups and downs of being a special operative for SHIELD.

There will be times when SHIELD will have one's back and take down villains who are drawn to the heroes. There will also be times when duty will call because SHIELD is monitoring for problems 24/7, and it won't be up to the vagaries of the hero's daily comings and goings to see him stumble into trouble the way most do. Will they be required to make reports? How commonly will they be called on the carpet for questionable actions? All of these are issues to be explored.

(continued in next comment, due to character restrictions)

SHIELD-US Relationship Clarifications re: "Civil War"

[dewline.livejournal.com]

No arguments from me there. "The Collective" made a pretty big point of reminding the public of just what SHIELD is truly capable of when they concentrate themselves on a specific problem.

As I understand the situation from postings on comicbookresources.com from Tom Brevoort(and a certain amount of reading between the lines of those postings), the database would likely be hosted by the US Commission on Super-Human Activities and by SHIELD.

Being a UN-chartered organization with provisions in their charter to assist any UN member that asks for their help with specific problems, SHIELD has effectively been contracted by the Commission to enforce the Superhuman Registration Act. The relationship is not unlike that between the RCMP and the several provinces that hire the Mounties to serve in the stead of what would otherwise be a provincial police force(IE: all provinces save Ontario, Quebec and Newfoundland-Labrador).

[miraclo.livejournal.com]

(continued/concluded)

I wish that the editorial and storytelling focus vibe I was getting from the DC crew at Wizard World East was reflected over at Marvel. If Marvel took their current, Civil War track and ran it the way DC's editorial structure is running their universe, it would be a winning combination. Unfortunately, Marvels still far too fragmented, and has been growing a newer fan base I have little respect for -- people who seem to view the mainstream and "Ultimate" universes as being almost interchangeable... or, worse, who see the "Ultimate" universe as the one of greater interest. Easily two thirds of the room for the Marvel panels I sat in were heavily-to-exclusively interested in that newcomer's continuity. Marvel editors continue to mostly be little more than talent handlers hired because of their networking skills with the "talent", whose job it is to keep drinks filled, pillows fluffed, and tell them how brilliant they are in order to keep the work flowing. Too many people working at/for Marvel don't know who many of the characters are and don't seem to care beyond a name, an image, and two or three lines of description. I'm not claiming DC's even close to perfect in that regard, but at least they have an engaged, involved uber-editor in Dan DiDio. They appear honestly engaged in (re-)crafting a universe. That was Marvel's strength - what brought it to the top in the 1960s and largely kept it there for a few decades as they bred a couple generations of fans who were emotionally invested in the characters and in it for the long haul. Once the dollar signs started to become big enough, though, that all became negotiable.

In the end, I fear, as the comics industry continues to be ruled by waves of fashion, there will come a time when the push at Marvel will be towards someone's notion of "old school" superheroic trappings for nearly all of the characters and it'll be up to those people to decide how roughly to make those changes. If it's going to be done within continuity, though, it's going to have to be a work of magic or something close to it - much as DC's done - and that's not a great spot to be in. Anything that potentially makes stories, that makes character history, go away is ultimately a bad thing. You may acquire new readers, but most of them are only there for a little while, and in the same stroke you shake loose more of the people who really care about the characters. The people who stuck around for years and more through occasionally crappy runs because they had a connection to the character and his history.

BTW

[miraclo.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the mention! I forgot to lead with that.

Re: BTW

[dewline.livejournal.com]

Ne problema, Mike!